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Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey?

R
ron@sailcetacean.com
Fri, Sep 24, 2021 1:19 AM

Jason

We recently (8 months ago) purchase our Nordic 32 in Southern California and we live in Portland Or.
We did a bunch of homework on the best surveyor and Cummins mechanic in SoCal but still found each one of them lacking by the time we had some time at home. We even flew a Nordic "expert" from Anacortes to the tug to help, but still, things got missed.
They did find (most of) the big stuff. We needed a new rudder shoe and rudder shaft due to galvanic action or green wire grounding. And the boats history was perfectly clear. But still.
This is our third boat (first power boat) so there was really no excuse, but we relied on these guys. They did an ok job, but certainly not exemplary.  They did the complicated stuff, oil analysis etc., corrosion, but the commonsense stuff they didn't find and it  got us.
We/they  missed the forced air heater (substitute air conditioner for you), leaks in the ports  holes (tough to find).  For us, the most glaring, that nobody caught, was the engine hour meter was stuck and not working . After contacting the po we think we are ok, but still that should have been caught by one of the tree "experts" we hired.
You might just make a list of the things that you personally know and make sure they work, do it for yourself.There is a lot of experience on this list that can help with a comprehensive list. Those items that you can’t do should be added to the surveyors list.
The boat we bought is wonderful, but the people and experts we used were also just people ("experts"), out to make a buck and try to do a good job.
When we bought our last boat, the surveyor was absolutely perfect and thorough, it's just tough to find these kinds of people remotely.
I still love our new Nordic. When you get back to Portland , lets have a beer, we can talk Nordic.
Ron
Nordic 32-982

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Subject: Sentoa Digest, Vol 124, Issue 14

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Today's Topics:

  1. Hot sauce (stuart miller)
  2. Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey? (Fire Fighter)

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:02:43 -0700
From: stuart miller stuart.d.miller@gmail.com
Subject: [Sentoa] Hot sauce
To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Message-ID: E9434812-70FB-4125-82F2-EBD88CD47C69@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Definitely get an engine surveyor and make sure he does oil analysis on the engine and generator. And analysis on the transmission fluid.  And pressure check on the cooling system.  There are two cutlass bearings on the shaft.  Make sure they are in good condition. Replacement requires generally dropping the ruder and removing the shaft an labor intensive and expensive proposition.
Regards
Stu
Doug’s Tug
32-02

Sent from my iPhone


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:23:15 +0000
From: Fire Fighter firehoser75@hotmail.com
Subject: [Sentoa] Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey?
To: "South East Nordic Tugs Owners' Association (SENTOA)"
sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Message-ID:  <MWHPR2201MB1279D008E87BDB2A9530E814B6A39@MWHPR2201MB1279
.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;    boundary="000_MWHPR2201MB1279
D008E87BDB2A9530E814B6A39MWHPR2201MB1279
"

Jason,
A one owner, freshwater kept boat is a big plus. Being one owner, he should be able to tell or show records about all the critical maintenance that has (or has not been done). Being an older model, hopefully he has fairly recently changed the shaft seal, the cutlass bearings, the rudder seal, serviced and pressure tested not only the coolant (antifreeze side) but also the raw water cooling components (pump, fuel cooler, aftercooler (very important if it has one), transmission oil cooler, and heat exchanger. All of these components should be pressure tested as part of the servicing. You want the water, air, oil, etc. to stay only where it is supposed to and not "mix". :) Even in freshwater, this servicing should be done at least every 6-7 years. The exhaust elbow can also be an issue, and if original, I would change it out right away (despite it being freshwater operated). If an original (design) Cummins elbow, when (not if) it fails internally, it can let water get into the turbo (if it has one) or worse yet even into the engine exhaust itself. Worse case, leading to an engine rebuild. There are articles under the Sentoa webpage "maintenance section" about the "issues" surrounding exhaust elbows. Before you replace it, look that info up (especially the article by Kelly Britz)!! Aftercoolers require fairly regular off engine maintenance (every 3 or so years, could go a bit longer due to freshwater use)  with a complete cleaning of both the water and air sides, new O rings, assembled with a good amount of grease to reduce future corrosion and aid in future disassembly, and very importantly pressure tested. If this aftercooler maintenance is neglected, it can mean complete replacement which in and of itself can be fairly expensive, but if it develops internal leaks, your engine could be ingested water with the air leading to really big problems down the road. There is alot of good, free, info on these engines on Tony Athens' website sbmar.com in his forums and under "Tony's Tips".
Similar (but usually lessor) maintenance required for the generator, so ask lots of questions and ask to see records (hopefully he has some).
Batteries require replacement at the 5-8 year mark (sooner if owner abused). Ask about their age, as all of these maintenance type costs can add up. If you and/or your father in law are DIY types, your costs for this type of work will be quite a bit lower, as labour is usually the most costly item. If not, count on keeping at least $20,000+ aside to spend on repairs, missed or questionable maintenance, with some for upgrades/updates (depending on what is there and what you desire and can afford).
Make sure that your surveyor carefully checks the decks, roofs, etc. for any signs of moisture and/or delamination. This type of repair can be quite expensive, and you would definitely want to know if that is evident on a "new to you" boat.
Boat ownership is not inexpensive, and you need to be aware of that going into it. However, for most of us, the rewards are worth it!! Nordic Tugs are great, well made, dependable boats. But even they require regular, quality maintenance.
I wish you both the best in your new adventures, and try to enjoy all aspects of this "journey".
Best,
Tom Easterbrook
formerly Pilitak NT 37-068
Nanaimo, BC


From: hescher via Sentoa sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Sent: September 23, 2021 10:28 AM
To: South East Nordic Tugs Owners' Association (SENTOA) sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Cc: hescher hescher@gmail.com
Subject: [Sentoa] Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey?

My apologies, folks. I am still learning how to best utilize the list serve. I hope this reply works correctly. First, thank you all so much for the warm welcome and for the advice. My (soon to be father in law) and I are currently under contract to purchase Hot Sauce 032-99. The boat is currently located in Louisiana. I live in Portland, Oregon and my father in law is in Kansas. What attracted us to this particular vessel is it’s one owner status, river kept and what appears to be a well kept Nordic. The real fun is about to begin though - survey, sea test, decision.

On Sep 22, 2021, at 10:11 AM, john pardington via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.orgmailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> wrote:

Jason in addition to the great advice above I also hired a Cummins engine tech in addition to a surveyor located here in Traverse City Michigan when I purchased my 2000 Nordic 37 last fall. He spent about 4 hours going over every aspect of my Cummins 330 in the slip and on the water. Good luck.

John Pardington
NT 37 Lisa Marie
Traverse City MI

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2021, at 12:05 PM, Fire Fighter via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.orgmailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> wrote:


Hi Jason,
Welcome to the Nordic Tug family. Gene is totally correct. Not enough info provided for us to be of much help. However, there are indications that the boat has been cared for, better yet, it has been loved. One indication is the ER and engine. Is the engine covered in rust and/or oil and grease, or can you practically eat off of it?? Only an indication, but if the owner takes really good care of the engine and room, that usually means (at least better odds) that he cares for his boat. General appearances can "tell a story".
You need to find a good surveyor (check for references) and a good mechanic to carefully go over the boat. This is usually very area specific.
Good luck,
Tom Easterbrook
formerly Pilitak NT 37-068
Nanaimo, BC


From: Jason Resch via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.orgmailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org>
Sent: September 22, 2021 7:27 AM
To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.orgmailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org <sentoa@lists.sentoa.orgmailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org>
Cc: Jason Resch <hescher@gmail.commailto:hescher@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sentoa] Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey?

Hello. We are pending on Hot Sauce (32). Looking for any recommendations for a proper survey. Jason 503-997-7818 _______________________________________________
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Jason We recently (8 months ago) purchase our Nordic 32 in Southern California and we live in Portland Or. We did a bunch of homework on the best surveyor and Cummins mechanic in SoCal but still found each one of them lacking by the time we had some time at home. We even flew a Nordic "expert" from Anacortes to the tug to help, but still, things got missed. They did find (most of) the big stuff. We needed a new rudder shoe and rudder shaft due to galvanic action or green wire grounding. And the boats history was perfectly clear. But still. This is our third boat (first power boat) so there was really no excuse, but we relied on these guys. They did an ok job, but certainly not exemplary. They did the complicated stuff, oil analysis etc., corrosion, but the commonsense stuff they didn't find and it got us. We/they missed the forced air heater (substitute air conditioner for you), leaks in the ports holes (tough to find). For us, the most glaring, that nobody caught, was the engine hour meter was stuck and not working . After contacting the po we think we are ok, but still that should have been caught by one of the tree "experts" we hired. You might just make a list of the things that you personally know and make sure they work, do it for yourself.There is a lot of experience on this list that can help with a comprehensive list. Those items that you can’t do should be added to the surveyors list. The boat we bought is wonderful, but the people and experts we used were also just people ("experts"), out to make a buck and try to do a good job. When we bought our last boat, the surveyor was absolutely perfect and thorough, it's just tough to find these kinds of people remotely. I still love our new Nordic. When you get back to Portland , lets have a beer, we can talk Nordic. Ron Nordic 32-982 -----Original Message----- From: sentoa-request@lists.sentoa.org <sentoa-request@lists.sentoa.org> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 2:24 PM To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org Subject: Sentoa Digest, Vol 124, Issue 14 Send Sentoa mailing list submissions to sentoa@lists.sentoa.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to sentoa-request@lists.sentoa.org You can reach the person managing the list at sentoa-owner@lists.sentoa.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Sentoa digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Hot sauce (stuart miller) 2. Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey? (Fire Fighter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:02:43 -0700 From: stuart miller <stuart.d.miller@gmail.com> Subject: [Sentoa] Hot sauce To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org Message-ID: <E9434812-70FB-4125-82F2-EBD88CD47C69@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Definitely get an engine surveyor and make sure he does oil analysis on the engine and generator. And analysis on the transmission fluid. And pressure check on the cooling system. There are two cutlass bearings on the shaft. Make sure they are in good condition. Replacement requires generally dropping the ruder and removing the shaft an labor intensive and expensive proposition. Regards Stu Doug’s Tug 32-02 Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:23:15 +0000 From: Fire Fighter <firehoser75@hotmail.com> Subject: [Sentoa] Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey? To: "South East Nordic Tugs Owners' Association (SENTOA)" <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> Message-ID: <MWHPR2201MB1279D008E87BDB2A9530E814B6A39@MWHPR2201MB1279 .namprd22.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MWHPR2201MB1279 D008E87BDB2A9530E814B6A39MWHPR2201MB1279_" Jason, A one owner, freshwater kept boat is a big plus. Being one owner, he should be able to tell or show records about all the critical maintenance that has (or has not been done). Being an older model, hopefully he has fairly recently changed the shaft seal, the cutlass bearings, the rudder seal, serviced and pressure tested not only the coolant (antifreeze side) but also the raw water cooling components (pump, fuel cooler, aftercooler (very important if it has one), transmission oil cooler, and heat exchanger. All of these components should be pressure tested as part of the servicing. You want the water, air, oil, etc. to stay only where it is supposed to and not "mix". :) Even in freshwater, this servicing should be done at least every 6-7 years. The exhaust elbow can also be an issue, and if original, I would change it out right away (despite it being freshwater operated). If an original (design) Cummins elbow, when (not if) it fails internally, it can let water get into the turbo (if it has one) or worse yet even into the engine exhaust itself. Worse case, leading to an engine rebuild. There are articles under the Sentoa webpage "maintenance section" about the "issues" surrounding exhaust elbows. Before you replace it, look that info up (especially the article by Kelly Britz)!! Aftercoolers require fairly regular off engine maintenance (every 3 or so years, could go a bit longer due to freshwater use) with a complete cleaning of both the water and air sides, new O rings, assembled with a good amount of grease to reduce future corrosion and aid in future disassembly, and very importantly pressure tested. If this aftercooler maintenance is neglected, it can mean complete replacement which in and of itself can be fairly expensive, but if it develops internal leaks, your engine could be ingested water with the air leading to really big problems down the road. There is alot of good, free, info on these engines on Tony Athens' website sbmar.com in his forums and under "Tony's Tips". Similar (but usually lessor) maintenance required for the generator, so ask lots of questions and ask to see records (hopefully he has some). Batteries require replacement at the 5-8 year mark (sooner if owner abused). Ask about their age, as all of these maintenance type costs can add up. If you and/or your father in law are DIY types, your costs for this type of work will be quite a bit lower, as labour is usually the most costly item. If not, count on keeping at least $20,000+ aside to spend on repairs, missed or questionable maintenance, with some for upgrades/updates (depending on what is there and what you desire and can afford). Make sure that your surveyor carefully checks the decks, roofs, etc. for any signs of moisture and/or delamination. This type of repair can be quite expensive, and you would definitely want to know if that is evident on a "new to you" boat. Boat ownership is not inexpensive, and you need to be aware of that going into it. However, for most of us, the rewards are worth it!! Nordic Tugs are great, well made, dependable boats. But even they require regular, quality maintenance. I wish you both the best in your new adventures, and try to enjoy all aspects of this "journey". Best, Tom Easterbrook formerly Pilitak NT 37-068 Nanaimo, BC ________________________________ From: hescher via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> Sent: September 23, 2021 10:28 AM To: South East Nordic Tugs Owners' Association (SENTOA) <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> Cc: hescher <hescher@gmail.com> Subject: [Sentoa] Re: Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey? My apologies, folks. I am still learning how to best utilize the list serve. I hope this reply works correctly. First, thank you all so much for the warm welcome and for the advice. My (soon to be father in law) and I are currently under contract to purchase Hot Sauce 032-99. The boat is currently located in Louisiana. I live in Portland, Oregon and my father in law is in Kansas. What attracted us to this particular vessel is it’s one owner status, river kept and what appears to be a well kept Nordic. The real fun is about to begin though - survey, sea test, decision. On Sep 22, 2021, at 10:11 AM, john pardington via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org>> wrote: Jason in addition to the great advice above I also hired a Cummins engine tech in addition to a surveyor located here in Traverse City Michigan when I purchased my 2000 Nordic 37 last fall. He spent about 4 hours going over every aspect of my Cummins 330 in the slip and on the water. Good luck. John Pardington NT 37 Lisa Marie Traverse City MI Sent from my iPhone On Sep 22, 2021, at 12:05 PM, Fire Fighter via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org>> wrote:  Hi Jason, Welcome to the Nordic Tug family. Gene is totally correct. Not enough info provided for us to be of much help. However, there are indications that the boat has been cared for, better yet, it has been loved. One indication is the ER and engine. Is the engine covered in rust and/or oil and grease, or can you practically eat off of it?? Only an indication, but if the owner takes really good care of the engine and room, that usually means (at least better odds) that he cares for his boat. General appearances can "tell a story". You need to find a good surveyor (check for references) and a good mechanic to carefully go over the boat. This is usually very area specific. Good luck, Tom Easterbrook formerly Pilitak NT 37-068 Nanaimo, BC ________________________________ From: Jason Resch via Sentoa <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org>> Sent: September 22, 2021 7:27 AM To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> <sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org>> Cc: Jason Resch <hescher@gmail.com<mailto:hescher@gmail.com>> Subject: [Sentoa] Recommendations for a Nordic Tug 32 Survey? Hello. We are pending on Hot Sauce (32). Looking for any recommendations for a proper survey. Jason 503-997-7818 _______________________________________________ Sentoa mailing list -- sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> To unsubscribe send an email to sentoa-leave@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa-leave@lists.sentoa.org> _______________________________________________ Sentoa mailing list -- sentoa@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> To unsubscribe send an email to sentoa-leave@lists.sentoa.org<mailto:sentoa-leave@lists.sentoa.org>