Cockpit Water intrusion
I surveyed a newer 37 this past week. The surveyor found water in the
cockpit floor by the port side ladder that goes to the flybridge.
The water is originating from the propane locker and has infiltrated to the
ladder and in a two foot radius from the propane locker. He was unable to
determine if water has crept into the salon. The sole of the cockpit is not
soft or mushy.
The water is originating from a two inch hole the factory drilled in the
locker and floor to run the 1/2 inch gas line. The edges of the hole are
not sealed and the gas Line is not gasketed. There is no drain in the
propane locker. When water gets in the locker the water goes straight to
the bilge and in addition is absorbed into the sole. From the lazarette you
can see clear water dripping from the hole.
How big of a problem is this? How long and how hard to fix? Collateral
damage? How much? I know this kind of thing can get expensive quickly.
Thanks for your help
I think that by applicable standards a drain hole is required to assure that any leaking propane is vented/drained immediately overboard – and not into the bilge! That, in a of itself, is truly dangerous.
The core issues and the sealing of holes can be assessed and fixed by any competent boat yard. They should be of concern. They may be expensive to fix depending on the extent of core that has been wet or rotted. I hope I have not misunderstood your description.
Chris & Roddy Roosevelt
Former owners of NT 37-193
Christopher du P. Roosevelt
88 Ely's Ferry Road
Lyme, CT 06371-3409
Office Tel.: 860-434-9500
Office Fax.: 860-434-9505
E-mail: cdr@cdrose22.commailto:cdr@cdrose22.com
From: Paul Cleary via Sentoa [mailto:sentoa@lists.sentoa.org]
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2021 5:45 PM
To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Cc: Paul Cleary mvsouthernbelle34@gmail.com
Subject: [Sentoa] Cockpit Water intrusion
I surveyed a newer 37 this past week. The surveyor found water in the cockpit floor by the port side ladder that goes to the flybridge.
The water is originating from the propane locker and has infiltrated to the ladder and in a two foot radius from the propane locker. He was unable to determine if water has crept into the salon. The sole of the cockpit is not soft or mushy.
The water is originating from a two inch hole the factory drilled in the locker and floor to run the 1/2 inch gas line. The edges of the hole are not sealed and the gas Line is not gasketed. There is no drain in the propane locker. When water gets in the locker the water goes straight to the bilge and in addition is absorbed into the sole. From the lazarette you can see clear water dripping from the hole.
How big of a problem is this? How long and how hard to fix? Collateral damage? How much? I know this kind of thing can get expensive quickly. Thanks for your help
There should be a drain in the bottom of the locker that goes overboard.
It sounds like this drain for the LP is missing. Instlal the drain right
away and monitor the delamination. Not an easy fix, but likely not
structural either.
On 8/14/2021 2:45 PM, Paul Cleary via Sentoa wrote:
I surveyed a newer 37 this past week. The surveyor found water in the
cockpit floor by the port side ladder that goes to the flybridge.
The water is originating from the propane locker and has infiltrated
to the ladder and in a two foot radius from the propane locker. He was
unable to determine if water has crept into the salon. The sole of the
cockpit is not soft or mushy.
The water is originating from a two inch hole the factory drilled in
the locker and floor to run the 1/2 inch gas line. The edges of the
hole are not sealed and the gas Line is not gasketed. There is no
drain in the propane locker. When water gets in the locker the water
goes straight to the bilge and in addition is absorbed into the sole.
From the lazarette you can see clear water dripping from the hole.
How big of a problem is this? How long and how hard to fix?
Collateral damage? How much? I know this kind of thing can get
expensive quickly. Thanks for your help
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Frankly, this sounds like an aftermarket installation. The rules for propane have been well established for decades. It is almost inconceivable that a “newer” 37 would leave the factory like that.
In any case, if the cockpit sole is not spongy I would just fix the immediate problem by cleaning up the installation, adding a drain, etc, and not worry about rebuilding the sole.
Obviously it is a topic for the survey and any purchase negotiations, but it should not kill the deal by itself.
Gene Fuller
Yorkshire Rose, NT 37-136
I agree that this does not sound like a factory install, but an aftermarket "upgrade" to propane? For safety, the propane locker needs to be "air tight" as regards the interior of the boat, bilge, or lazarette. It should have a properly sized drain directly overboard to vent any propane that may leak from the cylinder or lines. Propane is heavier than air, expands from liquid to gas at a rate of 360 to 1 and if not handled correctly can be very dangerous. So get your propane "locker" up to standard, and do it right away.
I disagree with the others on the delamination in the cockpit sole (floor). The water intrusion, if it continues will just add to and expand the issue. Over time, the core which is wood will rot and your floor will soften. I would expect that if left, when you finally deal with it, the cost will be higher requiring more extensive work. If it were my boat, I would deal with it sooner rather than later. I had a similar delam issue in the "roof" overhang of the cockpit, caused by water leaking from holes in the top deck for dinghy mounting. It cost about $7,000 to repair a 9 square foot area. If this is a boat you are considering purchasing, then I would try to get some estimates as to cost for this repair (it could be rather expensive depending on how far it has spread, what has to be removed, etc.) so that I could adjust my bid accordingly. I would expect that the seller would cover at least some of the estimated expense.
Good luck,
Tom Easterbrook
Formerly Pilitak NT 37-068
Nanaimo, BC
From: Gene Fuller via Sentoa sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Sent: August 14, 2021 4:10 PM
To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Cc: gefuller5@comcast.net gefuller5@comcast.net
Subject: [Sentoa] Re: Cockpit Water intrusion
Frankly, this sounds like an aftermarket installation. The rules for propane have been well established for decades. It is almost inconceivable that a “newer” 37 would leave the factory like that.
In any case, if the cockpit sole is not spongy I would just fix the immediate problem by cleaning up the installation, adding a drain, etc, and not worry about rebuilding the sole.
Obviously it is a topic for the survey and any purchase negotiations, but it should not kill the deal by itself.
Gene Fuller
Yorkshire Rose, NT 37-136
Thank you for all of the advice. We will definitely fix the propane drain
if we purchase the boat. We try to always be a safety first boat!
On Saturday, August 14, 2021, Fire Fighter via Sentoa <
sentoa@lists.sentoa.org> wrote:
I agree that this does not sound like a factory install, but an
aftermarket "upgrade" to propane? For safety, the propane locker needs to
be "air tight" as regards the interior of the boat, bilge, or lazarette. It
should have a properly sized drain directly overboard to vent any propane
that may leak from the cylinder or lines. Propane is heavier than air,
expands from liquid to gas at a rate of 360 to 1 and if not handled
correctly can be very dangerous. So get your propane "locker" up to
standard, and do it right away.
I disagree with the others on the delamination in the cockpit sole
(floor). The water intrusion, if it continues will just add to and expand
the issue. Over time, the core which is wood will rot and your floor will
soften. I would expect that if left, when you finally deal with it, the
cost will be higher requiring more extensive work. If it were my boat, I
would deal with it sooner rather than later. I had a similar delam issue in
the "roof" overhang of the cockpit, caused by water leaking from holes in
the top deck for dinghy mounting. It cost about $7,000 to repair a 9 square
foot area. If this is a boat you are considering purchasing, then I would
try to get some estimates as to cost for this repair (it could be rather
expensive depending on how far it has spread, what has to be removed, etc.)
so that I could adjust my bid accordingly. I would expect that the seller
would cover at least some of the estimated expense.
Good luck,
Tom Easterbrook
Formerly Pilitak NT 37-068
Nanaimo, BC
From: Gene Fuller via Sentoa sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Sent: August 14, 2021 4:10 PM
To: sentoa@lists.sentoa.org sentoa@lists.sentoa.org
Cc: gefuller5@comcast.net gefuller5@comcast.net
Subject: [Sentoa] Re: Cockpit Water intrusion
Frankly, this sounds like an aftermarket installation. The rules for
propane have been well established for decades. It is almost inconceivable
that a “newer” 37 would leave the factory like that.
In any case, if the cockpit sole is not spongy I would just fix the
immediate problem by cleaning up the installation, adding a drain, etc, and
not worry about rebuilding the sole.
Obviously it is a topic for the survey and any purchase negotiations, but
it should not kill the deal by itself.
Gene Fuller
Yorkshire Rose, NT 37-136